From: Kim
Hi - I just now found your website and REALLY like it!
I am 'doing' dressage - 1st to 2nd level on what you would probably call a 'games type' quarter horse. He is small - 14.3 - and agile, with a good shoulder and good reach. He is also a little croup high, and isn't particularly long thru the back (just wide - 31.5 cm tree).
I am currently riding in a Stuebben Romanus w/ a 31.5 tree, and have decided that the saddle is too small (my knees over the front of the flap should have been a clue, perhaps, but coming from hunters, what did I know?)...
Am looking for a more supportive saddle - this one doesn't help me out a lot when the horse starts really clocking around. I have several questions about fitting this horse (and me).
If the panels fit the horse when he is standing, will they still fit when he picks up his front? I have heard that saddles should bridge slightly when a horse that is somewhat downhill is standing so that he can round up underneath, but I am chicken to try this out. Also, I have put a couple of other folks' saddles on him (lazers and a couple wintecs in 17.5), and if I move them back off the shoulder blade - the riders weight looks centered in the weakest part of the back.
Do you know a saddle that would be a likely candidate to fit this type of horse? My Stuebben had panels that were too convex and I got a custom fitted saddle pad to compensate. I would prefer to get a saddle that fits w/o tinkering with pads and such. Also, I really like the twist on the Stuebbens - have not sat in any I like as well. I noticed that you said that the Courbettes had a similar twist - maybe their panels and length of seat might work?
Also, if a saddle has thigh blocks - where should they be when you sit in the saddle with your legs just hanging?
Signed - too many variables!
Hi Kim! You've analyzed your difficulties very well, and I'll try to address your concerns one at a time. Without seeing your horse in person, it's difficult to suggest specific models of saddles for you to try, but I can provide some general ideas.
Saddle size: It sounds as though you do indeed need, at the least, a much larger saddle. Once again, saddle seat size has very little to do with the size of the rider's rear end, and everything to do with the length of the rider's thigh. Measure your leg length from hipbone to kneecap -- that's a good indication of the size saddle you would find most comfortable. Many people who aren't very tall are quite surprised to find that their long thighs make them most comfortable in dressage saddles that are 18" or 19".
Support: I'm assuming that you would prefer a saddle with a slightly deeper seat and more pronounced knee rolls and/or thigh blocks. Some people prefer flatter, harder seats and minimal knee rolls, but from what you've said, that doesn't seem to be your personal preference. You might find that you are happiest in a VSD (all purpose - tendency dressage) model rather than a straight D (dressage) model. Try both and decide.
Panels: The panels shouldn't present a problem as long as they are wide enough to distribute your weight, and as long as they are separated by a gullet that is wide enough to keep the panels from contacting your horse's spine at any point. The wool-stuffed panels on a good-quality saddle will conform to the horse's body and adjust as the horse's body shape changes. That's why good saddlemakers always suggest that you ride the first twenty hours in your new saddle WITHOUT using a pad -- to help the saddle conform to the horse's contours.
Fit and bridging: If the saddle fits, it should fit at a standstill AND when the horse is in motion. A saddle that fits only at a standstill isn't very useful, unless you plan to do all of your riding at a standstill. ;-)
Bridging is NOT a good thing, ever. A well-made saddle with a deep, wide gullet and good panels will allow a horse to lift and round his back easily and comfortably. A saddle that bridges -- fits in front and behind but lifts off the middle of the horse's back -- will put too much pressure at both ends, and none in the middle. It's painful for the horse.
Saddle position: If you are coming to dressage from a hunter background, putting the saddle in the correct position, that is BEHIND the shoulder (at a standstill AND in motion), will look very strange to you. The hunter world is notorious for placing saddles too far forward -- not that the dressage world is immune either, I hasten to add. ;-) If you've seen hundreds or thousands of saddles placed too far forward on the horse's back, that position begins to look "normal" to you, and it's difficult to make the adjustment. But your horse will be very grateful if you do.
I know what you mean about the rider's weight, but it's an optical illusion. If the saddle is in the correct position, the rider's weight will be in the CENTER of the saddle, just where it belongs. If the saddle is too far forward, the lowest point of the saddle will no longer be the center but the rear of the saddle, and that is where the rider will sit. As a result, the rider's weight will be concentrated under the cantle -- FARTHER BACK than it would be if the saddle itself were moved back, into position. Your horse's comfort and ablity to move freely will tell you what's really going on. ;-)
Twists and brands: If you prefer a narrow twist (many women do), then you might try various models of both Stubbens and Courbettes. Another possibility would be the Ainsley Pro-National Dressage model. Thornhill is another brand you might investigate -- it makes nice, affordable saddles. Remember that ANY saddle from a reputable manufacturer can be ordered with short or long flaps, so if you are very thin but have very long legs, and feel that you are "swimming" in an 18" or 19" saddle, you might be happier with a smaller saddle with extra-long flaps.
Thigh blocks: If they are in front of the thighs, they shouldn't interfere with the leg when the leg is hanging relaxed, and they also shouldn't interfere with the leg when the rider is in riding position with a clear bend at the knee. If the thigh blocks are large and stiff and force the leg into a particular position, this is probably not a very good saddle. If they are soft and simply provide a gentle reminder to keep the legs underneath instead of in front of the rider, they can be quite useful. If you're talking about blocks behind the thigh, as can be found on some saddles, I haven't met any riders who actually LIKE those. ;-) Many riders have rear blocks removed from their saddles, or choose to order their saddles without them. Any pads or blocks should make it easy and comfortable for the rider to achieve a correct position, and shouldn't get in the way -- or force the rider into a single, "locked-in" position in the saddle.
If you're working at first and second level, and you put your saddle back where it belongs and continue to work, you may be very surprised at what happens. It's quite common for horses that are slightly croup-high to level out after a few years of correct work.
If you can keep your horse stepping up from behind and using his back, and if the saddle position allows him to use his shoulder freely, you are very likely to find that the combination of engagement behind and freedom in front will permit his shoulders to loosen and lift. It's not an overnight process, of course, but if your horse is comfortable and working correctly and well, it will happen eventually.
Riders who are moving up the levels tend to get overly concerned about lifting the horse's shoulders, and sometimes they forget that there is NOTHING a rider can do to lift the horse's shoulders directly. If your horse achieves reach, engagement, and finally collection, he will lift his own shoulders very nicely by developing carrying power behind and thus lightening the front end. ;-)
Jessica
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